Exactly, Im not gonna run in mud with 50grands on my belt..I just had a Raptor Owner come up to me and we had a great discussion. He was really impressed with the setup of the Rebel. I jokingly said the Raptor was To much for what i wanted and his response was Thats what you want in a truck lol
I have been a Jeep guy a majority of my life so if i wanted a true offroad vehicle thats where i would be cause when i think off offroad its slowly crawling up a mountain and enjoying the views (Not saying the raptor cant) . I had full intent to buy a raptor and had looked at / test drove several before deciding on the rebel it just fit my requirements better And even then i will freely admit its probably some of the status symbol aspect you mention cause i similarly equipped truck could just as easily act as a weekend toy hauler / weekend getaway toy just as well, but i wanted the rebel.I also had to come to the realization that i spend 95% of my time in the city and not able to get out. but i look out and the rebel gives me the confidence that if i chose to pack up and roll out this weekend i could do it without a hassle.The Rebel isn't meant to go after the same PreRunner crowd as the Raptor was, it's intended to be able to drive off the beaten path, on trails, overland and get out and get dirty while still be utilized as a traditional truck.
A lot of solid points. I am in a trip up north Michigan right now and want to ride some of the seasonal roads in my Rebel. Knowing it's been wet and being unfamiliar with the roads I will look up some maps, etc. first and be prepared. This goes to the point a Raptor would provide better piece of mind. I fit into the getting your feet wet category I suppose for off-roading but at the same time need a practical vehicle I can drive daily, use for heavy mileage, and access some off the beaten path job sites. A Raptor would not work for that (heavy mileage daily driver) imo. Honestly, a Rebel and an RZR is probably the best combo for me. But then I have to trailer and store the RZR. No set up is perfect.I'd like to chime in if I may since I'm a Raptor owner & avid offroad guy.
For starters, I'm not looking to start an argument or troll you guys. I'm only going to give my perspective for the sake of civil discussion.
As some of you may have read in my post in general discussion, I co-founded an organization that largely caters to Raptor owners who want to offroad their trucks and I'm here in hopes to possibly do the same for Rebel owners in the near future so I view you as a potential customer, not someone who I want to piss off.
The two trucks truthfully couldn't be more different.
The Raptor was designed to be an offroad sportscar. It has a reinforced cab, added track width, heavy duty suspension components, FOX 2.5" shocks which are actually tuned very well for all around use. Roughly 12" of suspension travel & 35" tires. It all sounds great, but there is another underlying thing about the truck. The truck was deliberately very basic and simple. It can be repaired on trail in most instances with basic hand tools. For the offroad enthusiast, this is a huge selling point. For the person buying it as a status symbol it's a whole lot of "so what, who cares... it looks cool" and that's fine. From reading posts on the Rebels forums, there is plenty of the status buyers in this community as well. Again thats fine, you enjoy your truck how you want to enjoy it.
I personally own two Raptors, one Supercrew and one Supercab. The crew I drive daily and aside from trying to park it in congested parking lots occasionally I love it My Supercab was more of a toy, long travel suspension, modded and puts a smile on my face when I get in it. The Toy is for sale if anyone is interested LOL. The ride is soft and truthfully its the most comfortable truck to take in a trip because of this, but you lose a lot of on-road crispness in the handling. I personally can live with that. My average MPG in the crew is 14-15mpg mixed driving, the supercab is less due to modifications and only gets 10-12mpg mixed. Anyway...
OK, my take on the Rebel.
First off, besides the tailgate, the truck is gorgeous. It's very clean and stands out just enough to be noticed while on the road, but not to obnoxious. I personally think that having RAM plastered across the tailgate takes away from the trucks looks and if I were to buy one I would get rid of it. The interior, gauges, and center console looks great, the seats are a bit cheesy and would take a little bit to get used to. The truck drives very well around town and on the highway and the in cabin noise dampening is pretty good.
I get asked a lot if I think the Rebel is a direct competitor to the Raptor in terms of the offroad environment the Raptor is designed and used in. The answer is without a doubt, NO. The Rebel was not designed to hurdle across the desert at high speeds, jump, hit whoops, where the Raptor was and doing so I think would cause a lot of damage to a stock Rebel. Comparing it to the Raptor, they are two totally different trucks in terms of design capabilities and market intentions. The Rebel isn't meant to go after the same PreRunner crowd as the Raptor was, it's intended to be able to drive off the beaten path, on trails, overland and get out and get dirty while still be utilized as a traditional truck. You don't need to be hurdling across the desert to have fun offroad, I get that. I do feel the Rebel has some short comings as an Offroad capable marketed truck though. I don't think that the Rebel is a huge leap for Chrysler Corp into the offroad enthusiast market, but more a "dip your foot in the water to see how it feels before diving in" if that makes sense. It's a compromise between between daily truck use while trying to appeal to the offroad market and I feel that sort of takes away from the trucks potential. One of the most marketed and innovative features on the Rebel will most likely prove to be its biggest pitfall due to complexity and cost in the future and that's the air suspension. I realize a lifetime warranty is available, but then you're locked in to always using factory parts with factory short coming and it also eliminates the ability to work on your own vehicle. For the people who do offroad this could also be a problem is it fails while on trail, time will tell on that. Truthfully it wouldn't have been to hard to put a good set up shocks and springs on the truck similar to the FOX's used on the old Ram Runner kit. It would've been more cost effective for the manufacturer and the end user (you) in the long run although no where near as innovative. I won't be surprised if someone comes out with an air suspension elimination kit in the near future, sorry getting a little off subject. Now all that being said, back to my foot in the water comment. What the manufacturer does in the future largely will depend on the end user/enthusiast. If a noticible % of Rebel owners use the truck offroad and the aftermarket begins to support your efforts to do so then there is good reason to improve upon the truck in the future rather than dumb it down as we've seen in the past with other RAM models. Ultimately what you use the truck for will determine the trucks future.
Since posting and researching the Rebel for possible offroad events in the future, I've received quite a few questions (email/private message more so than in threads) about what considerations my organization would have to take to make Rebel events feasible and enjoyable for owners in comparison to our Raptor events. This is actually a very good question. For us, the big thing we would have to take into consideration is speed. I could be wrong, but I think more Rebel owners would be interested in shorter trail runs from point A to B where the pressure to maintain a fast pace isn't there. There still needs to be a challenge, but at the end of the day you still need to drive home in one piece, correct?
I do have a small rant... Why so many variations? Is there really a point to having a V6, 2WD, standard gauge cluster, etc. as options? This takes away from the presence of the truck is marketed as. You're buying a Rebel as a status symbol as well as its features, capabilities, and performance. When you get in it you should know it's a Rebel and when tell someone what you drive they should immediately know its different from any other truck in the RAM range. Knowing a cheap basic version of the truck is available would piss me off as an owner. Just saying.
You and I have very similar expectations. I bought my Rebel as a secondary towing/daily driver to keep miles off my Rubicon. All these vehicles have their limitations and expectations. The Rebel and Rubicon both satisfy my needs on their own way. IMO it's the best combo for my needs. I recently spent the weekend in PA deer hunting in the Rebel and it handled fire roads that were extremely sloppy, muddy, rutty, with inclines just as well as my Jeep. I was very impressed and surprised. My past pickup was a Chevy Silverado (which I liked very much) BUT wouldn't have had the confidence on those trails. Very happy with my choice so far. 1300 miles in the first (2) weeks. 4wd and tires work great for my needs so far!Thank you for the well thought out contribution Mark. There really shouldn't be a comparison between the two, but if there's one thing the internet loves, it's a pissing contest. For the past 22 years I've been to every Jeep Safari. Next year, I'm looking forward to towing my Rubicon with my new Rebel! That's where I saw the most value in the Rebel, as an all around 4x4 that would also make a great emergency/vehicle recovery truck. When the eventual bumper modifications or replacements that are winch capable come out, I'll be able to recover my Jeep after I roll it! LOL! I can't beat the Raptor with my Rebel in the sand - the Raptor can't beat my Rubicon on Hell's Revenge - my Rubicon can't beat a Razor at Sand Mountain - etc, etc. Set proper expectations, then buy what works for those expectations, and let's all meet in Moab for beer and swapping war stories!!!!!!!